Nothin But Net
Nothin But Net
NBA Season Preview: Bold Predictions and Strategic Moves for Eastern and Western Conference Teams | Deuce and Mo
Ever wondered how a rebuilding team like the Brooklyn Nets could make a significant impact in the upcoming NBA season? Join us as we host the dynamic duo, Deuce and Mo, from the Deuce and Mo Podcast and NBC Sports California, who bring their expert analysis and bold predictions for the Eastern Conference. We dive into the potential of rising stars like Cam Thomas and Nicholas Claxton under new head coach Jordy Fernandez, and consider how the Nets could strategically navigate the draft lottery to their advantage. As we shift our focus to the Charlotte Hornets, we explore the uncertainties surrounding LaMelo Ball's health and the team's future, pondering whether they might make a bold move in the draft.
Our conversation doesn't stop there. We evaluate teams like the Toronto Raptors and Detroit Pistons, dissecting their roster changes and strategic decisions. What does the future hold for key players like Bruce Brown and Cade Cunningham? Could adding a prospect like Cooper Flagg reshape the Pistons' lineup? With an eye on player development and draft strategy, we consider how these teams might rise in the Eastern Conference standings.
The episode also offers a comprehensive look at the Western Conference contenders, where we scrutinize the latest trade moves and roster adjustments. How will teams like the Miami Heat and Golden State Warriors fare amidst trade rumors and rising competition? With insights on Miami's potential shake-up involving Jimmy Butler and strategic decisions from franchises like the Clippers and Lakers, we bring you a vibrant discussion on the future of the NBA. From unexpected trades to the strategic acumen of front offices, this episode promises a rich tapestry of insights for NBA enthusiasts eager to explore the complexities of team dynamics and league standings.
Hello everyone and welcome back to Nothing but Net where we talk all things and everything basketball I'm Ritam. I'm Cole and I'm Kaya, and today we have two super great special guests with us today Deuce and Mo.
Speaker 4:Aww, you're too kind. I'm Morgan or Mo, and it's's first of all an honor to be here in the studio thank you for inviting us in um. For anyone that doesn't know us out there, we are basketball junkies, but um, we have our own podcast as well, called the do some more podcast, and we are nbc. What are we? Nbc sports california broadcasters.
Speaker 5:There we go, I got it. See us on king's broadcast pregame and postgame.
Speaker 5:I'm deuce and we're happy to be here he's really good at like making it short and sweet which is super cool, that you guys would just like come on our show look, I knew at a young age I wanted to like be involved in, like some sort of broadcasting, sports broadcasting probably like your guys's age and like I had this like thirst to like, I wanted to do stuff, I want to work in the business, I do anything to like internet, a place or whatever, and you all have like a desire to create awesome content consistent and this is what's so special about basketball, is it brings people of all diverse, with diverse amount of people from age groups, whatever, together and we're just here talking hoops yeah, having fun one month to go, and so yes,
Speaker 1:I know perfect timing that we got together yeah, and to predict everything right, yes, so we should we start off with the Easter conference or the Western conference?
Speaker 5:Let's talk some East. What do you want to talk about with the East?
Speaker 1:All right, so let's just. So. What we do is we just go from 15 to 1 and talk about East 15 to 1?. Okay.
Speaker 4:Like in groups, okay.
Speaker 1:So I'm on 15.
Speaker 4:I think the worst team in the East is definitely going to be the.
Speaker 5:Nets, I would say you know what's funny?
Speaker 4:I'm like I have to pull up really quick.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I mean I think Nets are going to be down there. It's clear they're in a rebuilding situation. I think they're content with like yeah, let's go get Cooper Flatt. With the number one pick.
Speaker 1:But here's the thing Having the worst record in the league is not a guarantee Of getting the number one pick, but here's the thing it's getting the war.
Speaker 5:Having the worst record in the league's not a guarantee of getting the number one pick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, I mean yeah, but I mean they also got a boatload of picks from the nicks and the mccall bridges that's right uh-huh, and counting all the kd kairi picks involved, they have so much picture the future and their season literally this season is just let cam thomas cook. I feel like that's just.
Speaker 5:You know Jordy Fernandez, who of course in. Sacramento last couple of years with Mike Brownstaff, is now the head coach. Great guy, I think he's going to set a legit culture. So, like you know, in our eyes it's like they're going to be bad. They're going to be trying to tank.
Speaker 3:No, I think he's going to try to establish a culture of like.
Speaker 1:No, this is how we play even if we're not good.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we're not going to be for sure. Yeah, he's high on nicholas claxton. He said the other day he's like I think he can be an all defensive guy yeah, and that last, that last season with um katie and kairi on the team.
Speaker 1:That 2023 season, nick claxton, for a good period of time, led the league in blocks.
Speaker 4:Yes, so I mean, you think about him and his length alone, but it's also going back to kind of what Deuce was saying, with Jordy Fernandez being able to set that tone and set that standard. They could be one of those annoying teams right that, like, even though they're going to lose a lot of games and not have the best roster.
Speaker 1:They're going to randomly just beat themselves or something. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so we'll see what they can do Interesting. Okay, they're at the bottom of your list in the East.
Speaker 1:Yeah, would that be for everyone?
Speaker 4:I mean.
Speaker 3:I would say, maybe Pistons.
Speaker 5:Okay, fair, you know the team that I just don't know about and from a talent perspective, you'd probably be like I don't think they're going to be the worst team in the East, but look out for Charlotte.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're just a hospital at this point.
Speaker 5:Well, and it's just like you know if lamello stays healthy. You do wonder too, with they're in this weird kind of transition period. They've got a lot of young pieces and then they have some guys who've been around for a second. What are they trying to do? I like, I like in my head I'm like I couldn't. I would not be surprised if we get like a lamello trade or something at some point yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, maybe you know I mean you disagree with that?
Speaker 3:I can see it, but like he's kind of like their guy that they're trying to build around Obviously he gets like injured like every like five games but like he's good and I think especially like with like the team they're building around like lamello, I think that like they can get better. I think they're building around LaMelo, I think that they can get better. I think they're still bottom of the barrel in the East. Maybe if they get some lottery luck and get Cooper Flagg Everyone.
Speaker 4:Anyone can get Cooper.
Speaker 3:Flagg. We've seen with the Hawks last year that you can get the number one pick, Honestly the lottery is just, it's a lottery.
Speaker 4:You can still mess up the number one pick too. Huh, exactly.
Speaker 5:Well, we don't know that yet. But the other thing too is like to your point about the lottery is like back in the day, the lottery odds are so different. If you had the worst record in the NBA, you had a 25% chance of getting the number one pick. And now that the league has evened it out, I just think it's in a much better spot, because now you know.
Speaker 1:The worst three teams have equal odds.
Speaker 5:I like that, you know I think it makes it much more difficult to truly go into like tank mode because there are no guarantees, and I like that.
Speaker 1:But I don't know where Charlotte's direction is this season because in my opinion, they took a huge reach in the draft with Tijon Salon. I think that he's going to take a lot of time to develop because he's an international prospect, but they also have two really good win-now players LaMelo Ball if he can stay healthy, he's a really good player but also Brandon Miller he was probably, in my opinion, the second-best rookie that year with his spacing and switchability but also Mark Williams. As their franchise center is also injury-prone, he's going to miss the first, I think.
Speaker 4:I think for me, when I look at that roster and then I look at the East, though, there's just things I don't get excited about, right, you know, and that's that's my issue. I mean, that's, I think it's very negative because they're still, like you said, like even with Miller, like such a good basketball player and showed so much potential after his first what half of the season beginning of the season wherever you want to go with that so yeah, I don't, I mean definitely bottom still with them.
Speaker 5:Also, you know a guy that no one really likes talking about on that team, for obvious reasons Miles Bridges.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 5:He's very talented. Unfortunately, they have some interesting pieces, but yeah, I just, I just wonder, from a talent perspective you wouldn't say the worst team of these, but you're like man, where are they going? What's that gonna look like?
Speaker 1:I mean, but they have a new coach this year and I I saw him at california classic and he he seems like I mean I know it wasn't specifically listening into the huddle for everything he was saying, but he was really like getting his guys going and I have really faith in Charles Lee to do the right thing for this team, whether it's, you know, maybe they not win, but just like the Nets, like establish a culture in Charlotte that maybe they could move on from or move off of going into the future. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was going to say that they could also build off of like a great culture. I was going to say that they can also build up a great culture like Philadelphia or Brooklyn or anything, and make a great team.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean again looking at the bottom of the East, though you even look at last year and how many times we were like, oh, if the Sacramento Kings were in the East. They would have made the playoffs, they would have been this. They would have made the playoffs, they would have been this. And so I sadly always have this idea of those bottom teams, like they're just never going to be good enough, even if they do have these talented players on them and two other teams.
Speaker 4:That I mean we can go in order, but just I want to mix in. This bottom of the barrel would be like even Washington.
Speaker 5:They're like similar to Charlotte, where there's talent, but where are they trying to do it Exactly Is?
Speaker 1:Jordan Poole, a franchise point guard.
Speaker 5:Kuzma. They had Valanchunas.
Speaker 1:Valanchunas also, but Valanchunas is really good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, very talented defensive player, yeah and we'll see what happens with Alex Saar as well just the kind of how he develops Good point.
Speaker 1:But well, just kind of how he develops. Good point, um. But I really like bub carrington coming out of pit. I think I do too. I think he's gonna quicker than most people think. Replace jordan pool or maybe move jordan pool to the bench or maybe move him to the two, but I don't like the size of a jordan pool yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't think george jordan pool should be starting because, like when he had like that good playoff run in golden's State, was always like he came off the bench and, yeah, he's always been a six-man player.
Speaker 4:I think he needs a different type of leadership or coach around him. You know that is instilling a different type of discipline. You know that like where there is no, because I think he has so much potential as a good basketball player in this league in a certain role right, but role what he's in now, kind of like you're saying it's just, it's not it he played better last year too.
Speaker 5:Once they did move him to the bench, but then they had to put him back in the lineup because of injuries. But yeah, um, I know we're going a lot of different directions here, but I I think I tend to agree with you like brooklyn's the worst team in the east yeah um, but you when you bought through. There's just a lot of bad teams in the bottom of the yeah I'm not in love with any of them.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, the raptors too.
Speaker 5:Honestly, I'm pretty high on the right are you okay, I?
Speaker 1:think that we saw scotty barnes. I know he had a sophomore slump, but his this, like last season, he was really good at barrett and quickly coming from contender culture in new york. Um, it's not like they're waiting to develop. I know we haven't seen barrett really break out into someone who we saw he was at duke, but he's still a good nba player, and so is quickly.
Speaker 1:And then bruce brown. Yeah, I mean, I think they're gonna. I don't think bruce brown, because his contract is up this year. I don't think he resides with Toronto, so I think they move on from him this year.
Speaker 3:Davion Mitchell.
Speaker 5:Davion's in Toronto. That's right. Yeah, I just look at them as a classic team that there's some intriguing talent and maybe they get good enough to be in the play-in, which in the East you could win like 38 games.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm pretty high on. I'm not going to say that they're going to be like a top seed. I think that they could make like to the 10th seed, like nine seeds, like you said. Like okay, because I'm a lot of like. They traded their guys, like siakam. I mean I know they traded siakam for picks, but the ananobi trade, they got players back in return. I think that's the move Masayu Juri wants to get young players instead of wait for these draft picks to happen. I kind of like that way that they're going because they're not fully tanking, we all agree, then we're putting Brooklyn 15.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Brooklyn bottom.
Speaker 4:So then, who's 14?
Speaker 1:Washington or Charlotte probably.
Speaker 4:What did we decide with Detroit?
Speaker 5:Detroit's got to be 14. Okay, okay okay.
Speaker 4:Oh, you still.
Speaker 3:You're high on Detroit too. I love it I mean, okay, they lost.
Speaker 1:They had the biggest losing streak in the NBA last year. Right, and I know that they. I don't like the pick of Ron Holland, because the one thing that they needed last year was shooting and Ron Holland, he's not the best shooter. I think that they should have taken someone like a Dalton Connector and Montez Buzalis, right, but they got a shooting coach who is notorious for being one of the best three-point shooting coaches in the NBA. They said he's going to work with the Sar Thompson. They said he's going to work with Ron star thompson.
Speaker 1:they said he's going to work with ron holland, who are already really good defenders and defense is a skill that a lot of people don't have. But those two are I mean, they've only been in the league for a year and ron holland is a rookie, but they're kind of elite at it at defense.
Speaker 5:So if they could add that jump shot, I wouldn't yeah, I mean, I'm not like long term I hear that but I'm like is ron holland all of a sudden going to turn into a three-point shooter this year? No, no I think you just look at their roster and there's a talent deficiency to other teams. I mean yeah you had tim hardaway. I'm sorry, tim hardaway jr is going to be chucking like crazy in detroit.
Speaker 1:Tobias harris, tobias harris. How does he keep getting away with those contracts?
Speaker 5:you know? Know what? He's one of those guys that I think is a good player, but he gets contracts that make you go is he really that good? Look, I think he's a solid player. I mean, I think, a guy his size that can score and do some rebounding, yes, At his position too.
Speaker 4:There's a lack at that position.
Speaker 5:I don't love that he went to the Pistons.
Speaker 4:I'm going sure, trying to do make money what's your motivation?
Speaker 5:make money. But in philly like you're watching him in philly and there's so many times it's just like standing in the corner and you know he had the challenge at times of playing in a system that featured and bead and harden, which was challenging, and I felt like he got lost in the shuffle a lot in philly and so his number. You know he's just inconsistent. I don't think it was a good fit for him there.
Speaker 1:In Philly. Yeah, I mean I think he just wanted to go to a contender. But I mean, yeah, I don't understand the Pistons because they needed to spend that money some way throughout this offseason. But I mean I can kind of hear that they won't be like a 11 seed, you know, top playing. I mean not 11 seed playing, but like 10 seed right, but maybe 14 will work. But I think that their players could like they won't the team will be like the top team, but I think that the players could develop a lot this year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because they're all like, still really young on. Detroit and like they have like, like they've gotten like not good lottery luck recently, but they still have good players in Asar Thompson and what was his name?
Speaker 5:Jalen Duren's nice.
Speaker 2:I had Jalen.
Speaker 3:Duren in Cade as well, if he doesn't get injured.
Speaker 5:I think this is a massive year for Cade.
Speaker 1:Yeah definitely.
Speaker 3:I think this is either going to be his breakout year or he's going to get injured again.
Speaker 4:Either one right.
Speaker 1:Also I know this is a little reason why I don't want them to be a really bad team. I really don't want Cooper Flag to go to Detroit. I mean because I just don't see the fit. I think that they have franchise players. I mean not franchise, I mean they have really good developing players at every position. They got Cade at the one, ivy at the two, asar, ron Holland, three or four and then Dern at the five. I don't see the fit for Cooper Flagg you know what.
Speaker 5:You know what the fit is.
Speaker 1:You need talented players when you're a losing team, you just need talent and you figure it out later.
Speaker 5:You can't get. So did years ago when they could have dropped at Luka and they went how is he?
Speaker 3:going to fit next to Fox.
Speaker 5:Who cares?
Speaker 3:You have to make it work.
Speaker 5:Or, if it doesn't work, you trade one of them and you get assets.
Speaker 1:That's literally what happened with Halliburton and Fox they traded one of them because it didn't work, they got Sabonis back.
Speaker 3:Now everything's happy for both teams.
Speaker 1:So would we put Detroit at 14? Are we confident with?
Speaker 4:that. So Brooklyn, then let's do. I say let's do Detroit, let's just do Detroit. Also, I know they made the tweaks, but let's just go with track record last year. Let's just if everyone's cool with that, unless I mean.
Speaker 5:This is so tough for me because I feel like you can?
Speaker 4:I could be talked into anything with the bottom of the list uh-huh, and so I'm cool okay, so 13 we're gonna go washington yeah, sure, yeah 13 washington 12 charlotte 12 charlotte 12, okay, 12 dang. So then we're putting toronto at that 11 spot then yeah, are we, or are we putting chicago? That's right chicago, that's a good one. What's chicago? I gather. How many times are we gonna?
Speaker 5:talk about these teams, I'm just like chicago, like yeah they, they would have done anything to move levine yeah they couldn't do it.
Speaker 3:Jerry reinstorf, just like he's not having fun right now as a sports owner yeah, with the white socks setting the all-time record oh, oh, so much losing happening.
Speaker 5:You think about the Bulls offseason, what they lost too? Yeah, and it's DeMar Caruso.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's I mean I don't even know why people are Because, like I get that he didn't fit at some points in time with OKC Josh Giddey, but I kind of like the. I mean they didn't get any first-round picks back, which is kind of bad, but I wouldn't say it's a really bad trade for the Bulls. I like Josh Giddey as a franchise point guard I mean.
Speaker 4:I know he had the cautionary super like this but we keep talking about fit too, and, just like, I guess, opportunity for these guys, right, like, I think, sometimes, when, which guy were we talking about with the Pistons? Tobias Harris, even with Philly? It's all situational, you guys right, it's like Tyrese Halliburton even that it was not going to work with the fit here, but look at the fit for him on a different roster and a different system, as a different player, and even for Josh Giddey, what is really around him, though? But maybe because of his passing ability and his vision, he'll be able to even make the pieces that he has around him a little bit better.
Speaker 5:And I think that's a big thing. In OKC it was tough when the ball was in his hands and I think in this situation it's got to be more.
Speaker 5:You still have Levine there but you still have levine there but you still like kobe white, who had a really good year last year. Yeah, he should have won most improved in my opinion, yeah. So, um, it's a team that has some talent. But yeah, I mean, I think they're kind of in that weird spot and whatever happens with levine, they re-sign patrick williams who, like I think on paper you know you always I've always I've tried to talk myself into patrick williams so many times, but another guy who?
Speaker 5:seemingly has all the tools and the physical attributes that you would want in a player. Right, you know, but like has trouble staying on the floor has trouble being consistent. Sometimes opportunity can open up for a player like that and maybe you could show something, but I, I, yeah, I'm not'm not a big fan of what that team is.
Speaker 1:I think they could have gotten so much more value Because they got Chris Duarte in a couple of seconds for Duarte. But they could have gotten If they traded him at last year's deadline or maybe last year's offseason. I think that they could have gotten first for DeMar.
Speaker 5:DeRozan, it's tough, yeah, because I think it's that balance of knowing when to pull the trigger on those things.
Speaker 3:Also last year they were in that gray area where they were too bad to be good but too good to be bad. Now they've obviously made the moves to where they're now starting to become an outside play-in team. Last year they were on the cusps. I understand why they didn't make any moves, but in hindsight they should have so then we're higher on the raptors than we are I would say okay, so then let's do chicago 11, uh yeah, chicago 11.
Speaker 4:Raptors 10, or we still go. Are we still looking?
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, raptors 10, is there anybody? I feel like the only other team that I would put at 10 is the Hawks.
Speaker 5:I was going to say, yeah, I was looking at the Hawks Like we haven't really talked about them at this point.
Speaker 1:Okay, so of course I'm a Kings fan, but the Hawks are my second favorite team. Because, because Trae Young is my favorite player, so I'm always going to be high when I'm talking about the Hawks, talking about the hogs, okay, and I think that of course we know who trey young is right. Jalen johnson had a breakout year last year. If he he didn't make the games, played minimum 65 so he couldn't have won most, improved, but I think he definitely would have yeah um, and so you got trey young, you got jalen brunson, I mean jalen johnson, who I call like.
Speaker 1:Basically he's like the mini lebron james of the atlanta hogs, whoa, I'm being serious, oh serious. We got like a real Hawks fan over here. Because of his, he can finish at the rim over pretty much anybody. He has the. I mean he's not the best at it, but he has playmaking chops. He can shoot. The only thing he needs to work on is just his getting everything a little bit better right, yeah, and probably, like I don't know, like be like a generational passer have a vision and basketball. Iq.
Speaker 5:I like Jalen Johnson, but I'm looking at their roster right now because I'm just thinking of their offseason they make the trade with DeJounte Murray, which didn't work. They probably should have made that trade to begin with.
Speaker 1:I was super high on that.
Speaker 5:I like Dyson Daniels.
Speaker 1:Me too. That's what I was about to say.
Speaker 5:Good defensive player. He's got to find a way to knock down some shots, but I think giving him some more opportunity could be good for him. But I'm looking up and down that roster, I'm just like Okay. It screams average.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 5:Below average to me, yeah, it's like trey's gonna do his thing in a big night and then they're gonna lose games and people are gonna talk about trading trey, like it just feels like the same year I mean, we'll see how like resha, shea like, evolves, but I I don't yeah, what are you expecting I?
Speaker 1:don't expect much at least Like why is everyone so low on resauce Like I?
Speaker 4:think. Well, I think sometimes. I mean think about it If you guys are obviously younger. But being in Sacramento, when there's a bottom of the barrel team, the league and the narrative around it, people have fun like crapping on them right.
Speaker 4:It's have fun like crapping on them, right. It's just like more fun for people, and I think with the hawks there's a lot of jokes surrounding them, there's a lot of like people just wanting to kind of build that narrative around them, like they don't know what they're doing and so we'll see with what his development ends up being. Um, obviously there was a lot of people saying that that shouldn't have even been the number one pick, all the things, blah, blah.
Speaker 3:But they were.
Speaker 4:They were forced, kind of but and let's wait and see, too right because I know he got hurt.
Speaker 1:I mean he sat out a couple games in summer yeah for the games he did play, he looked pretty good. I think he dropped 20 in his first game.
Speaker 5:He he looked really good yeah, I think it's also just tough too, because we're talking about really young talent coming into a league and this is a grown man's game and the physicality of summer league is going to be a little different than the physicality of NBA regular season basketball. So I think you saw maybe some moments in summer league. I think you saw moments of him just being raw because he is young and you're just going to have to exert patience with it. You know that's, that's the reality. This is a big jump for him to go from that league to the nba and expect anything in year one it's tough.
Speaker 4:Okay, fine, then we're gonna put hawks 10, then toronto 9 because, because right now we have chicago 11. Hawks will put in that 10th spot and then you want to go Raptors 9th. By the way, it's the Eastern I shouldn't be mean about that it's the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 5:The Leastern Conference. We're saying we're not trying to pick playing or something.
Speaker 4:We're just talking about the end of the regular season. We're just making predictions of where we stand with them right now.
Speaker 3:Before any trade or the deadline happens.
Speaker 1:Thankfully we didn't film this last week because the Knicks predictions were going to be so different. We'll get there. That's at the top.
Speaker 3:That's in the future.
Speaker 1:In like 10 minutes time Really. Raptors 9? I feel like I mean yeah. Are you still trying to push them higher, or what? No, no, no, I think. Raptors 10, hawks 9.
Speaker 4:Because the Hawks are trying to win, but also he loves to trade.
Speaker 3:The Hawks are trying to win, but they're not doing a good job of it, I mean it's cute.
Speaker 5:I mean, I don't know how they're trying to win. They need to trade capella first of all. Yeah, I see, and that's the thing. Like these teams, like you say, they're trying to win. It's like, no, they're stuck with capella right, like because no one would want to trade for him at any point at the. They're probably asking too much and his salary that they cleaned up the dejante trey young thing, which I think is a good thing. I think those two need to be broken apart, but I'm like I don't like what they're seeing.
Speaker 5:I mean, yeah I. I guess they're in that range. I don't like what they're seeing.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah I guess they're in that range. I don't really have a problem with it. I mean, not in this year but in the future. A defensive lineup to cover of Trey Young, of Dyson Daniels at the two, Reza Shah at the three, Jalen Johnson at the four. That's tall, that's big, that's, I think-.
Speaker 5:Better be able to make shots yeah knocked down some shots and I just I think. I think, if we go by track record for trey hawks, trey hawks, trey hawks.
Speaker 4:Well, trey, young on the hawks, it's what? What is the system with him? What is the? What is your identity as a team? Is it trey and the rest of you, or? You know what I mean. I think they've tried, even with murray, they were like trying to do different things, but it's like when you have a ball heavy guy and this guy is an undersized guard out there, so he's also going to be a liability on the defensive end. That we've seen so many times. You're just you're asking a lot from him in in like with him with the ball in his hands, to create, to do more, instead of really making sure you're getting everyone else involved and have a different system that, like everyone else, can see success runs through trey yeah, it does.
Speaker 3:I mean he averaged 11 assists per game last year. Yeah, so like he definitely passes the ball a lot and like the dante didn't work out because like he is the point guard and like yeah, I think like the vision with desante when they like traded for him was to kind of like give trey young some help in the backcourt, but like he kind of doesn't need it yeah, because I watched a lot of hawks games last year.
Speaker 1:It was literally just of course he did. It was really just like trey, you can cook this possession.
Speaker 5:It was just alternate like when trey was out, like he missed a game DeJounte went crazy.
Speaker 1:Sometimes Murray would cook. Yeah, he had like what? Two game winters, three game winters.
Speaker 4:Okay, fine, so we'll go. Raptors 10. We'll put Hawks 9 for you, even though it doesn't mean that we are on agreement.
Speaker 5:We're just getting to it. We're trying to get to a consensus.
Speaker 3:We're making compromises.
Speaker 4:Okay, fine, at eight. Where's Are we still believing in Cleveland? What they're going to do next year, donovan Mitchell, all these things.
Speaker 5:You're going to drop them to.
Speaker 4:I'm not going to drop them to eight, but I'm just making sure we're going top five with Cleveland.
Speaker 1:Top six. I think eight is Miamiami I would say yeah okay, orlando, no, orlando, no, orlando orlando.
Speaker 4:You, I mean, you look at last season and then you would definitely have that idea. But at the same time I every time I get so excited about their roster, every year yeah because they're so young.
Speaker 1:Magic, orlando magic. That's such a great song it is um and they had kcp.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, I even forgot about that guy that can go out there not only defend and I know they got guys that can guard too on that roster already but he can knock down a three yep and he's been on really good teams. He's been on a couple of championship teams For him to come in there with a young team. I think that helps him a lot. I still think, looking where's the shooting, and I'm a little concerned about Wagner because I felt like it's not just that game he had against Cleveland in the playoffs where he couldn't make a shot, but it seems like the shooting's been inconsistent. You're just waiting for him to break out a little bit For him.
Speaker 1:I feel like the reason that he struggled in that series was, I think it's just because it's like the Jared Allen meme from last year the lights were too bright. He's still a young player.
Speaker 1:he's still gonna get time to develop that was like that was that team's first time in the playoffs and they took um what they took a like a real contender, I would say to game seven, and I feel like that. That kind of shows the development of like they could develop into a really good team and with ban caro like yeah, caro's a stud, yeah, that's the real mini lebron james, that's the real, I mean our first time seeing ban caro.
Speaker 5:We were in vegas, his for summer league. His rookie year was that king's magic game where he and keegan went so fun head to head.
Speaker 1:Other one where they hit the key three times at the end, but Banqueiro is such a big guy.
Speaker 2:Huge when you see him in person.
Speaker 5:it's striking to see a guy his size do the things out there. He can do so, you know, if he can get his game to even another level, which why couldn't he? Yeah, Wagner figures some stuff out. He had Casey. I mean, I like their team.
Speaker 4:I agree, I really do like their team. So then we're definitely we're going to. Then let's shove Miami at eight and then I mean, are we going to put Should?
Speaker 1:we talk about Miami. Let's talk about Miami. Okay, let's talk.
Speaker 4:Let's talk about Miami. And why are we shoving them at eight?
Speaker 3:because, yeah, I mean they kind of been like the apc for the last few years and it's worked out like, because I know like last year they like went to a or no, not last year, two years ago they went to the finals and then last year they kind of got yeah jimmy got injured, so then that kind of didn't work out, but he still stole a game from boston and they sure depend on one player a lot jimmy's probably going to get traded.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've seen those years.
Speaker 5:Yeah, if I had my my NBA hot take right now is no, uh, he gets traded this year.
Speaker 3:Okay, I can see it.
Speaker 5:I think there's been enough noise about, like their kind of unhappiness about him. You look at his age. You could see Miami going. Look, do we care about this? Ain't seen like, do we? Why? Why not sell? I'm not gonna say say so high on jimmy, but you're selling higher than a lot of yes and yeah maybe there's some team that's willing to take a swing. That is it.
Speaker 3:You never know what could happen, yeah and because, like last year or no, not last year two ago he kind of carried the team on his back and they went to the finals, but then as soon as he got injured, they got like they're a whole different team.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they got walked in the first rounds and it's kind of like he can turn it on in the playoffs, but in the regular season he doesn't do that. So like, depending on where they are in the standings at the deadline, they might move on from him. I can see that, but I don't think they will.
Speaker 1:I feel like I mean they traded for Thierry Ruggier. That was their big move and I think Thierry Ruggier fit super well. He just couldn't stay on the floor and it was just. I mean they have their franchise player.
Speaker 1:I think Bam is their franchise player over Jimmy for me oh yeah they re-signed Bam right before the draft to a max and they got Kalel Ware in the draft and I would like I like him that lineup of Bam at the four and Kalel Ware at the five, or maybe switching them. But that front court, that I'm really high on that. Yeah, yeah, I think they could. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 4:We're still shoving them in that eighth spot, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know about Miami Because, like, are they? Do they? I mean I know they're going to try to win, but I mean I don't, like it's just a confusing team this year Because, like, a lot of teams got better and I don't, they didn't really get better.
Speaker 5:For someone who's everyone is saying like miami's always a contender, always a contender, but they didn't really get better in the last year and the first thing you guys mentioned like bad vibes, you know, like not even having, and I should say the whole team has bad vibes. I just think the thing, it's the energy noise out there about the jimmy butler future thing and his contract and like are they happy with it? Where you're wondering okay, is that going to come into play? Those things matter when you talk about 82 game season.
Speaker 5:You know I think right you go back to last year with the warriors, like clay's contract status definitely messed with things with the warriors and their chemistry and you know draymond stuff like, so those things can impact at you. Um, and I know miami's always you know they get the most out of the talent that they have. They're gonna play hard, that hard. That's always going to be part of their. Dna Like no doubt about it, but I just don't see it this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just so confused, confusion.
Speaker 4:Let's see if they're aggressive and they make tweaks like we were talking about, even with Jimmy and they missed out on Dame.
Speaker 5:Like that was yeah, yeah, they wanted Dame. Yeah, yeah, they wanted Dame. They wanted to pair him with Jimmy and Bam, and who knows what that looked like in the East. I don't think that would have been good enough, but still.
Speaker 1:For me. I just like, I don't, like, I don't think that they could truly be a real championship winner if Pat Riley is still up in the front office. What yeah for me, because he made them miss out.
Speaker 1:He missed out on I mean, I know he's like the notorious guy, but he missed out on Dave. And he missed out on Donovan Mitchell. For what? Just to wait for Terry Rozier? And I mean I feel like he saw that they won in 2020. I mean, they went to the finals in 2023 and he was like, oh, we can run this team back, like we just made it to the finals. I just like I don't know.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and their team is fragile because they try to run it back and jimmy got injured and the team fell apart he's patient, you know like, and obviously has seen so much success where I think he's one of those guys where I just don't, I don't, I don't put it on him until the blame definitely needs to be on him.
Speaker 5:But I think there's so many times we talk about like, oh, he didn't do this trade. I think when you take a swing that you're giving up picks or you're giving up you know assets whatever you want that swing to put you in like legit content yes and I think there are some gms are like, like, even I think golden state faced that a little bit. I think Golden State, they were interested in Markkinen but they're like would he make us better? Yes, but is he going to elevate us to championship contention?
Speaker 1:We're mortgaging our entire future for this.
Speaker 5:And then what? How much better are we, especially with the new rules that they have with the CBA?
Speaker 1:and the second apron.
Speaker 5:That's going to have a huge impact on teams. It just had one on one last night with. Minnesota when they moved Kat. So those are the things that you have to, I think, with, if anything. You look at something like Miami. They don't do rebuilds, but I think they will cut bait and change some things up fast.
Speaker 3:I imagine BAM's going to be. They would rather spend in free agency than rebuild.
Speaker 4:Miami 8. Then Should we go Orlando? Are we getting crazy? Where are we putting Milwaukee At 7? I'm not going that crazy yet. I'm just so down on Milwaukee right now but, like, obviously, you have Giannis Antetokounmpo, you're still going to be up there. But at the end of the day, this is a team sport and some of the teams you see at the top in the Eastern Conference are good teams, not just individuals.
Speaker 1:I mean for me at seven. Like can we talk about like Indiana potentially going?
Speaker 4:I have them higher.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're a top-four team.
Speaker 5:And this is going to be an interesting discussion.
Speaker 1:For me, injuries led them to the conference finals, I would say, Because Giannis missed the entire first round. Jalen Brunson Josh.
Speaker 4:Hart, it's still hard, but they still made it. That's my thing. It's still hard to get there and you found a way to get there. You're still good.
Speaker 5:I think there is a little comp to the Kings of a couple of years ago where I think they caught a lot of teams by surprise with the pace. Last year they were crazy with their offensive pace. The way Halliburton started the year, he was unbelievable. But what I don't think a lot of people talk about with Halliburton is talented, is he is is. Once he got hurt and then he tried to come back, he was not the same player at all.
Speaker 5:Not at all. And I'm not even talking about the defense, which is just not his strong suit. He's not a good defender but the shooting numbers went down drastically um, I think but healthy.
Speaker 4:Now let's say, let's say he's healthy going in this season.
Speaker 5:I I just I'm not super high on that team. I mean I I think they can get in and be a top six team, but in terms of winning a series, if they're going up against a healthy bucks team, I don't think they win that series I think I don't think they win the next year. I I just don't think. I think they got a really fort.
Speaker 4:They are really fortunate last year that's fine, yeah, but you guys, the experience alone that they gained from that postseason how is that not going to make you a better basketball team?
Speaker 5:and I'll say this. I saw a clip of Siakam. They did some voluntary workouts with the team and he was talking to some of the young guys like hey, if you think we made it, we haven't done anything. It takes a different level. You think because of last year, we're here and we're just going to be back. That's not how it works and that's the champions and like yeah, and so I think that mindset's right. I mean, obviously halliburton's a really special player player.
Speaker 5:I thought nemhard had some really awesome moments, especially when halliburton got hurt yeah, um, and see occam showed some nice things turner's in a contract year um yeah, and they have a championship winning. Coach rick harlow won the championship with dallas in 2011, so I, I just I think there's people who are in a rush to put them into like hey, contention in the east, or like in the upper echelon in the east because of last year and my caution is what you were talking about who they played in the playoffs last year I'm almost to the point now where we have to go from one to five.
Speaker 4:Is that okay, because now we're in that space where we're like we don't know where we want to put Orlando or the Pacers, so let's.
Speaker 1:Is that?
Speaker 4:cool One's going to be.
Speaker 3:Boston.
Speaker 1:Whoa.
Speaker 4:You guys, I'm not there with boston, actually, really, I think, I think after last night, after last night, it's interesting you really, you think the knicks are better? I love this conversation.
Speaker 5:Yeah, can I tell you my boston concerns for a second, because we all I think everyone agrees on this they're one of the best teams in the league. Yes 100%, they're nice. Porzingis is not ready for the season. And let's just call it the way it is. Game changer we keep talking about injuries on the injury-prone guys.
Speaker 3:Porzingis. Porzingis is very injury-prone.
Speaker 5:Now they can live with Porzingis missing regular season games. They need him come playoff time. I guess you could go last year. Well, you really didn't. They won the finals pretty much without him, but there is a little concern about the injury and him coming back from that Horford another year older. So there's two guys right. They still have a lot of talent.
Speaker 4:Key pieces.
Speaker 5:Derek White, jalen Brown, jason Tam the thing that I think should be talked about more with them, though. What For a championship team? They've got a chip on their shoulder. People took shots at their path to the finals, jason Tatum barely played on Team USA he didn't play.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was a benchwarmer.
Speaker 5:He was on the team and so, for a team that was as good as they were last year, won all those games, won a championship. They're not getting the respect of a champion.
Speaker 4:I think that is the best thing ever for Joe Mazzullo to tell his team.
Speaker 5:Yeah, the chip on their shoulder has to be massive, and so I think there's going to be massive, and so I think there's going to be some extra motivation. I do have some concerns, and the Knicks are coming for him. I think with the Knicks, the one thing with them is their depth is just not good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they are top heavy, especially now.
Speaker 1:To play devil's advocate, I mean to give the argument to New York. The two best players on Boston are Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, of course, right, but the two best defenders on New York are those wings OG Ananobi and Mikael Bridges. I'm not saying that they could completely stop Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, but they could definitely slow them down, force the other guys to step up, and that's why I mean, if someone was to make the argument for New York, I think that would be their biggest one is that New York matches up with Boston, kind of.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, that's and that's where I'm at, and again, I'm being a little prisoner of the moment because of what happened last night, right, but I also think what we saw last year without bridges and then without one of the best shooting bigs in this league, now on this roster, I just just my impression of it would be like oh yeah, this is the best team. But then you do talk about their depth and I lost their best, and I do and, and, and.
Speaker 5:That is a fair point as well you say that, but they just gained a seven footer who could shoot it just as well as dante di vincenzo and what that? The spacing, what that does.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, lanes for brunson and you think about what they did without julius randall last year you know when he wasn't playing and how much success they still saw without him right, and so I'm just like. Now they have someone who, let's just say, cat is staying on the floor, but maybe he's not. He's getting in foul trouble Like he is when he's immature.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 5:I know, I know.
Speaker 4:So. So I guess my argument for New York is a little prisoner of the moment, of yesterday's trade and everything that went down. But I also think putting Boston right there it's like absolutely makes sense. Fair, like, why wouldn't I just do that?
Speaker 5:And I think, too, what I kind of you can make a case too, like Boston may not be pushing for the number one seed this year, right, Taking it easy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, do the regular season, poor Zingas chill.
Speaker 5:Like they could be strategic with it. They've got great chemistry. They know what winning time is Like they're going gonna be one of the best teams in the east regardless, so I don't think they have to go crazy and go.
Speaker 1:We have to get the number one seed, like if they're number two, it's who cares like yeah, and I for new york, I feel like, talking about the bench, they come I mean, I'm saying that completely but they pretty like they. They lost even chenzo, huge bench piece. I think that's going to force deuce mcbride to step up and I think he I'm not going to say like their season depends on him, but he's one of the x factors for this team. If he can really step up to the role that d vincenzo was last year because or josh hart, when he came up the bench was last year, I feel like they could make like be head to head yeah, wow, I forgot they added a campaign too.
Speaker 5:That's interesting.
Speaker 2:Landry.
Speaker 5:Shannon. There's some of these guys. I'm like Tom.
Speaker 1:Thibodeau's not playing these guys. I know, yeah, we know, jalen Burns is going to get 40 minutes a night.
Speaker 4:I was like, yeah, sure, some scrappy guys that maybe can come off your bench if someone needs a second to breathe or anything. But yeah, I guess that would be. The biggest concern is the roster construction for the depth for the New York Knicks, if you do want to talk about what could be better. So are we going to put Boston at one then?
Speaker 5:Put Boston at one. Yeah, put Boston Fine.
Speaker 1:It's the safest pick. Right it is Knicks at two, knicks at two, easy, it's the safest pick.
Speaker 4:Right it is, it is okay three are we going. We got Cleveland and Milwaukee. Where are we going? Oh, philly oh my god, thank you, I mean.
Speaker 3:Philadelphia. They could maybe be a dark horse for the onesie, with the addition of Paul George, kind of like replacing Tobias Harris, I love you guys.
Speaker 5:I of Paul George kind of like replacing Tobias Harris. I love Maxie and B you guys.
Speaker 4:I love Paul George, I really do.
Speaker 5:Kayla Martin.
Speaker 4:they added I think it's fair, though, because of his track record and his history, to also look at like okay, well, if he is on the floor, I mean he is nasty, right, like we know what he's capable of doing. But like, how healthy of a year is he going to have? But then also, you Also Embiid. There you go, Because I go the one-two punch.
Speaker 5:The reality is those guys aren't going to stay. They're going to miss games. Him and Embiid are going to miss games and it's just they'll still be. One of those guys is going to be hurt and they'll be gone in the first or second round.
Speaker 3:I mean, that has been like it's been the same. It's my thing.
Speaker 5:I would love to be wrong. I'd love to see Embiid out there, but every year Embiid's limping around. It's like are you okay, Can you continue this game? And then George faces similar issues as a championship team. I don't see it. I mean, I get why they made the moves they did, but I'm not no.
Speaker 1:I think they got a lot of extra motivation going. I mean not like they don't have like something that they have to like get revenge for, but like a lot of like energy going into the year because of the fact like they're so hyped that they just added Paul George, who's a perennial all-star type of player, and they're like, oh yeah, let's just go get this this year. I mean, I think that they're gonna fight to stay healthy even more this year just because they think that this is this is the year to win but like fight to stay healthy every year you know what I mean like it's the effort, like, like we we talked to sabonis the other day and I was I just said isn't it a skill set to like stay healthy?
Speaker 4:right, like, please tell me I'm right. And he said it just takes a lot of effort and it's not just putting the effort into practicing your free throws or practicing that like jump shot, whatever it is the move you're working on, it's also putting the effort into your body and making sure that you're doing everything perfectly. So, yeah, you can stay on the floor. Okay, we'll put them three. I think three, yeah, cool.
Speaker 3:You good with that. Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of looking at their death chart. They have Andre Drummond as well, which is kind of like he's not.
Speaker 2:Good to be in the charts.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's kind of like he's going to be good enough to hold the fork down if Embiid is injured, but he's not Andre Drummond from 10 years ago.
Speaker 5:Embiid's talented, we all admit that yes. It's just not fun.
Speaker 3:I can't imagine him being fun to play with. This is tough. He does have doozies when it matters. I think two years ago when they were in game seven against boston, he had like five points or something oh yeah, the indeed hardened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, when they just didn't show up and it's like you.
Speaker 5:You need him to show up in clutch time and like he doesn't do that and I just hope, with the addition of george, that maxi doesn't lose his aggressiveness, because there's one thing with the hardened and Beter and I know Maxie- was younger is. It felt like when Harden played it was like Maxie was kind of taking a backseat not being as aggressive and I think Maxie is a very exciting player a very crafty score explosive, he needs to have like that no, you're a guy and have that mentality yeah, also through the draft.
Speaker 1:I know like the size of the backcourt wouldn't be good, but I really like to pick a jerry mccain to add a shooting presence.
Speaker 5:He's from sacramento.
Speaker 1:That's a little bias, yeah, but I mean to add some shooting into their team, kind of I'm not like a replacement for devias harris, but to replace his corner presence. I mean, I, I, I really like that addition in the draft.
Speaker 4:And again, young, and so we can, we can see, but yes, I also really like that addition in the draft for them. And again, young, and so we can see. But yes, I also really like him, even as a human too, and I can't wait for when Embiid finally does a TikTok with him.
Speaker 2:That's just going to be the funniest thing that's so cute, just like the most dull face.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, he's going to be like what am I doing? Yeah, oh okay, philly, three, then four. You're going Milwaukee, you're even.
Speaker 2:Cavs guy over here, I see they haven't been doing that great besides Donovan Mitchell. I feel like they don't have enough.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it's hard Again, we already, when Giannis is on that roster, I mean you look at Dame as well and like maybe they have more things that are like Worked out this coming into season, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:For Cleveland. I know people have been saying this for a while and I know that they re-signed him, but I don't really like the fit of a frontcourt between Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. Just the shooting of that front and the switchability, the spacing of that frontcourt, it's just ugly for me. I really liked Evan Mobley and the switchability, the spacing of that front court, it's just, it's like ugly for me. You know what I mean. Like I just really don't.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I know I really liked Evan Mobley and I feel like this could be a big year for him. Like, which way is he going to be? Is he just going to kind of stay what he is? Yeah, Because he's another guy that you look at and go man, you have some defensive tools. If you had more of an offensive polished game, a polished offensive game, what could that look like?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I kind of feel like he needs to improve this year. He can't really stay stagnant because the team itself is becoming better. They kind of went on that run last year where we were like Cleveland could be a championship team.
Speaker 1:That win streak, yeah, but then they kind of cooled off.
Speaker 2:Of course he believed it.
Speaker 3:But they kind of cooled off and then they got injured in the second round.
Speaker 1:And for me, I think that Cleveland, as an argument for Cleveland, Darius Garland and Evan Mobley both missed a big amount of time. Darius Garland only broke his face, broke his jaw or something, and they still managed to go on that win streak and be a top seed in the Eastern Conference. Imagine if both those two were actually healthy during that time. Maybe it's because of the fact that they were hurt that Donovan Mitchell could get more ball situation and they wouldn't have to fight for the ball.
Speaker 4:But I mean and then defensively last year were there, were they still? Was that the year before that? They were just like super powerful defensively, or was that last year where they finished?
Speaker 5:yeah, but I mean they had went healthy like yeah, um, I'll make a case for mil here. You just made the Cleveland case. Milwaukee, you think about Dame, had a lot going on last year Like personally, like he's been.
Speaker 1:Family Adjusted to the new situation.
Speaker 5:Adjusted, like he was away. You know he's going through a divorce and like away from like kids, like that's not an easy thing. They also switched out their coach.
Speaker 4:That's first year, coach. That's what I'm saying Now.
Speaker 5:I start thinking about. Brooke Lopez is old. He's 36. That's funny. I say that because I am literally 36.
Speaker 3:In NBA standards 100 years old.
Speaker 5:I'm not a seven foot big who has had back problems in the past and wearing tear on my knees, mr Stiffback. And then you know, middleton is the same thing, as talented as he is. You just wonder how much he has left in the tank.
Speaker 4:Sure and even injury. I mean you talk about him and his injury history as well. So so I mean, are you kind of go, are you kind of down then on milwaukee a little bit more like I feel, like I feel like they'll figure it out more with dame yannis, doc, and I say that because it just it felt weird.
Speaker 1:I'm going, I'm going cleveland, and for me it's because of the, the people that they traded for damie little. They lost both grace and alan drew holiday and I know that they're both really good perimeter defenders. And we saw that all of last year. It's just the defense of Milwaukee was atrocious and they didn't even fix that in the draft by taking a guy like Ryan Dunn.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so their offseason. I'm looking at their depth chart too. So they had Torian Prince, gary Trent Jr, delon Wright, so some guys that have at least defensive mentality.
Speaker 4:I like the Gary Trent Jr.
Speaker 5:That's something they got to fix. Their defense was awful last year.
Speaker 4:Well, perimeter defense, specifically Interior, they got Johnson.
Speaker 5:That was the thing they put those guys in some tough spots, starting Beasley and Dame last year. I'm like who do you want to hunt? We can hunt either one, it's okay, okay.
Speaker 1:I like Cleveland.
Speaker 4:So Cavs at four.
Speaker 3:I mean, I kind of feel, I kind of agree Cavs four, maybe Indiana five, Milwaukee six.
Speaker 5:Ooh, because like. We're a. Cav house fan, here You're still putting Milwaukee ahead of them.
Speaker 2:I would put Milwaukee ahead of them, because last year I didn't like what I saw. I didn't like how Darius Garland played. I didn't like how Evan Moby played. I just feel like nothing was fitting how I wanted it to.
Speaker 4:So you're still down?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say they're down. Okay, except for like Donovan Mitchell. I feel like he had a great season, great playoff run, but I feel like everyone else is disappointed.
Speaker 5:You know what I'm eager to see, though we keep forgetting, with Cleveland new head coach Kenny Atkinson.
Speaker 1:He's getting an opportunity.
Speaker 5:When Kenny was head coach at Brooklyn.
Speaker 4:They overachieved in many ways, that was the funnest team. They played hard for him too. He set a standard.
Speaker 5:He's an offensive-minded guy too, so it'll be interesting to see what kind of spots he could put Evan Mobley in. How can they get creative with that backcourt? I think I'm higher in cleaves than I thought.
Speaker 4:So then let's go Tell me if you guys like this Cavs for Milwaukee 5. Okay, let's go Tell me if you guys like this Cavs 4. Milwaukee 5. Let's go Bucs. 5. Let's just go, okay, fine.
Speaker 1:Let's go, pacers 6.
Speaker 4:And then Orlando 7. Right, do we want to put Orlando 6?
Speaker 3:No, you're down on Indiana. I feel like the problem I have with Milwaukee is that they have a lot of older vets that are good, but they're aging, Like Giannis. You don't see him as an old guy, but he's almost 30.
Speaker 5:It seems like the last few years he's getting hurt.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he got hurt in Miami series and got hurt in the. Indiana series and they cost him the series in both of them. And it's kind of like Brook Lopez getting older. Dame is old as well, even though he can still shoot the ball really well. He's kind of good, but that's his only good attribute.
Speaker 1:He's lost a lot of his athleticism.
Speaker 5:This is it for this group? Honestly, I think this is it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this could be their last year together, okay.
Speaker 1:But also I feel like this is a big year for management, also because Giannis has not been afraid to say that if Milwaukee is not winning, he is out of it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, Giannis has had a lot to say there.
Speaker 4:He's had a lot of say there. He's had a lot of. His brother gets to be at the end of the bench. I don't know that all of his things have been successful.
Speaker 5:So it's like you know at some point, it's like you can make the noise. We've made some of the moves. We've been aggressive and we got rid of drew holiday. How'd that turn out?
Speaker 4:does he have a no trade clause or anything? I?
Speaker 5:don't know, I forget what his deal is. Who knows?
Speaker 4:yeah, that would be a crazy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's kind of like the legium of the east.
Speaker 5:Yes, okay, yes but people don't talk about the same one yeah, exactly like, because everyone looks at yannis is like the nicest guy blah, blah.
Speaker 1:They're seeing the true colors I just tried smoothie for the first time. God bless america.
Speaker 4:I love that you have all the pop culture part down.
Speaker 1:Okay, so then are we good with the East, so we're putting, this is what we're saying Boston one, new York two. Philadelphia, three Cleveland four, milwaukee, five, indiana, six, orlando, seven, miami, eight, atlanta, nine, toronto, ten, chicago, 11. What did we put at 12? Was it Charlotte?
Speaker 3:It was Charlotte.
Speaker 1:Let's do Charlotte. 13 Wizards, 14 Pistons, 15 Nets.
Speaker 4:Good job. I think that's a pretty good number. That's pretty good, that's really good, great job.
Speaker 1:And now we got one more. Let's go to the West.
Speaker 5:This one's going to be. I don't know how we're going to come to a consensus on the West.
Speaker 3:Like there's so many good teams.
Speaker 4:Who's the like this one? We should start at one, for sure, I think yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, let's do one yeah.
Speaker 3:Let's get the good stuff out of the way.
Speaker 5:I mean Oklahoma City is number one.
Speaker 1:Whoa, yeah, okay, because literally their two biggest needs were size rebounding, strength. Backup for Chet Holmgren. Isaiah Hartenstein boom Perimeter defense shooting spacing Alex Caruso boom done.
Speaker 3:If we recorded this 24 hours ago, I would have sent Minnesota.
Speaker 1:Wow, now Did they lost the cat trade.
Speaker 3:I don't know, you can't say, because it's like Julius Randle. I can see like I don't think the defense is going to be as good.
Speaker 4:Well, in the fit, it's just so weird. Like you, could stretch out cat, but you can't.
Speaker 3:You can't do that for.
Speaker 4:Julius.
Speaker 1:Randle, julius Randle, just the spacing between Gobert and Randle.
Speaker 4:I thought. I thought, though, though I always get weird because I always thought the spacing with even go bear and cat was going to be weird, and I just laughed, and then I was like, oh wow, they found a way. But that's also because cat kept um becoming a better, better and better at being able to stretch the floor and being more confident and like always having that as part of his game, but then it'd be um really became more of his identity. So now I look at this with julius randall and I, yeah it, it, minnesota is still going to be a very good yeah, they're going to be really good, but I I don't think that trading cat was like a getting better type of deal.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I agree with that. I don't think anyone can say today that the Wolves got better.
Speaker 2:And people.
Speaker 5:You know the spin on this and I've already seen it is like well, you know, from a flexibility standpoint, like you know, fix some cap things, short-term and long-term flexibility. And you know DiVincenzo's three-point shooting, that's something they need. They've liked him for a long time and I'm not denying that, like dante, dante could fit on one on like any team, like he's one of those blue guys confident all that stuff. But like I, I'm not a, I'm a kings fan, right, I I feel for wolves fans today, because they made it to the conference finals last year, something they had not done in 20 years, and they were on the cusp of maybe being a championship team or getting there last year. And, like you just said they, a lot of people thought maybe they could be a number one seed this year. Yet days before camp, they make this trade sending cat for randall who, by the way, is not going to be able to play at the start of the season he's hurt, like his shoulders so he's not healthy.
Speaker 5:Um, and I and I'm like, what is his role going to be? There's some talk like, well, you know, naz reed's gonna get more of an opportunity. I'm like, yeah, for now, but are you telling me you think julius randall's gonna be chill coming off of the bench, because I don't think he's gonna be right with that, and then do you want to be starting him? Does the spacing work? Yeah, those are questions. Um, I don't know I, I just me. They got worse today than they were yesterday.
Speaker 1:For me. I feel like this trade, like they needed to move off from either Cal or Gobert in the next few years.
Speaker 3:Yes, but they didn't have to do it now is my point yeah, yeah, they should have waited and seen, like with the chemistry and everyone getting better, because like, yeah, they kind of like in the the conference finals they didn't do well, but like I feel like that, uh, if they went back they would have done better. But obviously we won't be able to see that now because it's not the same team the ownership situation is so it's weird the whole alex rodriguez, like they didn't turn in the papers to buy it on time or something.
Speaker 1:And the minnesota current owner is just so notorious for not paying the luxury tax at all he's not going to reach out of his own pocket to pay the players. It feels inevitable that Cat was going to be traded at one point in time. The new CBA, especially, is not going to allow them to be able to pay all of Cat.
Speaker 5:Gobert, honestly, I do get that part of it.
Speaker 4:I it's something that, like, I still think they could have waited on that because the thing I said when we talked about this last night I said, well, you're telling me you couldn't go around the league and get more for cat that issue, because you could like think about and for a team that we are talking about in the western conference that accomplished what they did last year and you could just make certain tweaks the right tweaks to put your team over, but instead you are just making sure that you're going to, you know, save money or whatever it is that you're trying to do with those contracts. I just think it's the most like you were so close and you screwed it all up Now.
Speaker 5:I do think from their standpoint if you're looking at it from an optimistic standpoint where they go, we don't think we got that much worse. Randall's going to be motivated. He plays tough. He adds an element of toughness that maybe they didn't have. I think they're very big believers in McDaniels' offensive potential and like with more responsibility could he turn into a legit score on that team. Nas Reid expanded role. We're still going to be really good. Oh, and Ant's going to take a step. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's how they view it. That's how they view it, yeah, and I mean it's not like they're offseason. This was the only move.
Speaker 5:They added Rob Dillingham, who can kind of fit into these, but you're banking on Mike Conley staying healthy at 38 years old.
Speaker 3:But even if he doesn't, then I think Dante might be able to do well.
Speaker 4:Well, that's what I was even saying too. I was like you know, dante saw His role is now going to change, obviously, if he's coming off the bench instead of. But you put him in that position as a point guard when he's not a true point guard. But then, at the same time, you look at anthony edwards, who was bringing up the ball last year anyway, and it was like, well, no, you want him off the ball, you want to make sure that you're creating for him as well and he's not having to do all the work every single time. So I I do think having dante di vincenzo is huge and and you're losing Kat's shooting, but you're adding Dante DiVincenzo's shooting shot 40% from three last year.
Speaker 1:It's not like JellyFam. Nas Reed is a bad shooter. I mean he can't step up to what. Kat was, but he is definitely going to take a big leap this season, just like he did last year, and I mean a solid nine man, of those guys like Conley, edwards, mcdaniels, randall Gobert.
Speaker 4:And then off the bench you got Nikhil Alexander-Walker, divincenzo Naveen. So are you putting?
Speaker 1:Minnesota or Dallas at two. Minnesota Okay Over Dallas.
Speaker 5:So we all agree, okc's one, okc's one, yeah.
Speaker 4:Right Dallas, or, I'm sorry, minnesota two, minnesota two.
Speaker 5:Dallas three. Sorry, minnesota 2, dallas 3. One thing on OKC that I love too. I think the hard side pickup, like you were talking about, is big, but what Cech can look like next? Year when he doesn't have all that responsibility. They want to put the ball in his hands more. He is a talented player. I mean they just have defense everywhere too. I mean you think they have a lineup, they have a roster that includes lou dort and alex caruso sga tough, you know case and wallace.
Speaker 5:I mean no, you got some uh you got some legit defense defenders out there that can switch, be physical and think about it.
Speaker 1:It was. It was all built from the ground up. It's not like they're gonna struggle to maintain like chemistry with each other, because if there's one thing, okc does not have to worry about its chemistry Even if they lose 82 games, the guys are going to like each other, no matter what.
Speaker 5:The growth for someone like Jalen Williams is going to be interesting because he did not have a good playoffs. It looked like for him his first playoffs felt like oh, ok, maybe this was a lot for him.
Speaker 4:The experience, though? Experience matters um. So okc one, we say minute. We all say minnesota, minnesota, too sure?
Speaker 1:yeah, then let's do dallas, man you know, are you higher on dallas, not high on denver?
Speaker 4:that's why I'm not well, no, we're not there with denver, but dallas, you know after last night, I'm gonna say so.
Speaker 5:Last night I was like for sure, one, two, uh, okc minnesota, and after last night I'm like so stuck on two, just because I just think you can make a case for about five teams, to be honest just for me, like people are, like I know dallas made it to the finals but so many people are forgetting that they were the five seed in the regular season.
Speaker 1:And I'm not saying that they're gonna like take a drop off, like from the playoffs, but I don't think that they're gonna be defense got better and better and you added Klay.
Speaker 4:And not to say Klay is going to make your defense better, but he's going to add another dimension to your offense though.
Speaker 3:I mean he's not like 2018, Klay, but he's still good.
Speaker 4:But that's why I'm like screw his defense. I'm not even talking about his defense, I'm more talking about him as an offensive player, with Kyrie, with Luka, I player with Kyrie, with Luka, I think.
Speaker 5:When I look at Dallas, you bring up the point there with the fifth season. You've got to remember too. Kyrie missed a lot of time last year. He came back late January. They make the trades for Gafford and PJ Washington and all of a sudden they got red hot. At the end of the year they had a great run. They lose Derrick Jones Jr.
Speaker 5:I think that's a tough one, but I love the addition of quinn grimes and naji marshall's a dog oh yeah, clay, the clay one I'm fascinated by because, on one hand, I'm like, oh, he's gonna get so many opportunities because, you know, kairi and luca garner so much attention at the same point. He's so used to playing like this motion offense where, like, like, he's gonna get the ball around screens he's not used to like standing around watching like luca just do his thing yeah and that that can be taught.
Speaker 5:It's a tough adjustment for players when you're used to like the ball like whipping around. Now maybe dallas is like hey, we have to make sure we have a little more movement this year to get clay involved, to make sure he's happy.
Speaker 5:He's an emotional player um, maybe that's something jason kidd adds in yeah, exactly, but like, and then I derrick lively impressed me so much and not only with like I didn't know much about him, uh, when he played at duke, but you know he's looking at his numbers like what's he gonna impact in year? One and then he you know he had moments where he's in foul trouble a lot, but as this year went on he got better and better. Yep and to think he lost his mom yes, yeah like in the middle.
Speaker 1:He's an orphan.
Speaker 5:He was just tragic like the trauma I can't imagine right, and so, um, I, I'm just, I'm high on him and so, yeah, I think that you know it all comes down to this lucauka, just get in shape, if Luka is in decent. She's already great when he's not in shape, but if he can be in like legit basketball shape and locked in, they're going to be crazy. I mean they're tough to guard.
Speaker 1:That's like the, it's like a circle with Dallas, like all the time. It's just like Luka comes into the season unhealthy, comes into camp unhealthy, not in shape, and then he takes time to get in shape throughout the season and, like December-ish, now he's finally in like Luka form and then you know, he goes crazy. The cycle repeats. But just like you were talking about for Boston, I do feel like Dallas has a chip on their shoulder this year, especially just because, coming off of a finals loss, it wasn't even close Boston came up to a 3-0 lead.
Speaker 4:And it was just like Boston was just the best team in the league.
Speaker 4:And at times when they would play with their food, it was like what are you doing? Just take care of business. And so that's why, when I do look at Dallas, I'm like they still like they showed how good of a team that they could be. You know, not just, it wasn't just like luca everyone stare at luca it was like everyone playing these different type of roles and being able to also like contribute. It was on both ends of the floor, yeah are we all agreeing dallas three okay, so then Denver 4?
Speaker 4:Or Phoenix 4? I honestly think.
Speaker 5:This is going to be a debate.
Speaker 3:I think Sacramento could be 4.
Speaker 5:No, that's where I was going. I think the Kings are 4.
Speaker 1:I'm not high on Denver this year and I'll tell you why. Because Contavious Godwell Pope was a real integral part of their rotation and now're relying on christian brown to step up into that role. Sure, he was really good on their championship run, but is he ready to be that guy on? Not, I'm not a guy, but like to be in that role on a championship contender team to be like that starting that's. I'm kind of lower on denver, okay I completely agree.
Speaker 5:I mean, yokich to me is going to keep them in the top six? Yeah but that so in that to me.
Speaker 4:That's why it's hard for me to even think Sacramento in that fourth spot. I can see Sacramento in the top six, but in that fourth spot. Why are you two so high on that?
Speaker 3:Because I think the addition of DeMar is just going to be good and also I like Devin Carter coming in from the draft. I think he's going to be a good bench piece. Obviously, it depends on, like, what the starting five is going to be. I think I want kian ellis as the shooting guard, malik monk off the bench, because when kian ellis was starting, like in the second half, they were like a top five defensive rated team. Yeah, but I I think that like, especially with denver getting worse, phoenix is kind of like we don't know, yeah like it.
Speaker 3:And then, like la got worse. The other la didn't do anything. Golden state kind of got worse as well. It's kind of like they're all these teams are just like in a bucket, and then it's kind of like we don't know what is going to happen I think if, if Healthy King's ceiling is, they could be the number two seed.
Speaker 5:I think Whoa.
Speaker 1:Wait, wait, wait.
Speaker 5:I said their ceiling is the number two yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3:I agree.
Speaker 1:If the Randall experiment doesn't work.
Speaker 5:I like the four seed for Sacramento, I think to your point, go back to last year. Keon Ellis wasn't really part of the rotation A little bit early than not? Yeah, it really put him in until like late february, early march and it was it transformed their defense right. Him and fox are just deflection monsters. Keegan is a good defender and I think the addition of damar I mean it's just a guy that can go get you a bucket, get to the free throw line. His playmaking, his maturity on off the court, I think offensively they're going to be tough to go. Fox can score 30 on you, demar can score 30 on you. We've seen Keegan have big nights. Sabonis is going to command attention just because being such a threat in so many ways and the offense kind of just runs through him, yeah.
Speaker 5:They have so many playmakers on that, malik off the bench, yeah, and so last year they should have won 50 games. If they win 50 games last year, malik doesn't get hurt or or even hurt her at that point. Yeah, so I I look at their team. If healthy too, like their depth is, it's not bad because, yeah, let's just say keon starting well, then you got herder and monk and lyles off the bench, devin carter, if he comes back
Speaker 5:yeah so, um, I just think they've got the pieces to be a really well balanced team, and their weakness last year was more so I thought offensive creation at times yeah, and I think they check that. Box size is still going to be a concern, depending on the game.
Speaker 1:I was about to say, for a team who's literally the 2023 season, they were a record-breaking offense and the fact that they got we know how good their offense can be and a big question was the defense, and I feel that they really got better at the defense and so the offense. It's just like a light switch. They could flip that switch and turn the offense on in a minute. They got better on both sides.
Speaker 4:I agree with that, because I think even a lot of people like to compare Harrison Barnes. Oh, you get this upgrade with DeMar DeRozan, even defensively right, because Harrison Barnes what he lacked on the defensive end. There's going to be times that there's matchups for DeMar that just don't work out and that the smaller guard do try to hunt him out, but I do think you have enough help, whether it's from other perimeter players and or just even going on the inside. It's not like Domas, that's the thing.
Speaker 4:He might not be your typical rim protector but, he's a beast in the paint and he can at least alter a shot and then finish off the play with grabbing the rebound. And I think we saw a lot of that and a lot of people don't talk about that enough around the league.
Speaker 5:I think also we talked to Kevin O'Connor about this, because he's always anti-Sabonis and I'm like everyone talks about Sabonis' defense One. He plays really hard. He's not the longest guy, so he's not going to block shots. He has some physical limitations. We can acknowledge that. But the biggest thing you could do on defense is when the opponent misses is get the ball.
Speaker 4:Yep. Finish off the play you get a rebound.
Speaker 5:If you don't get a rebound, it doesn't matter. The guy is the best defensive rebounder in the league. So I don't know, I just look up and down. I like their squad. I think they're poised to be really, especially in a regular season too, because, you know, knock on wood here. But, like you know, they have guys that are pretty tough that will play through being dinged up throughout a season. The stat I love about DeMar he's played in 93% of his the games in his career. He doesn't miss time. You know, um, the two guys who led the NBA in minutes last year Sabonis and DeMar DeRozan so, um, you know these guys are going to play. I think the Kings are to a team that they take the regular season serious. They understand they don't want to be taken. They don't want to. They definitely blew some games last year. But I think other teams are like we don't care, we'll just finish wherever I think it's important for the Kings to get into a good spot.
Speaker 1:If we're talking about the interior, I mean Devin Carter. I know he's 6'2". Whatever, he does not play his size, devin Carter.
Speaker 5:I know he's 6'2". Whatever, he does not play his size. I just don't factor him in because I don't know when he's coming back, is it? February, is it January, is it March? You?
Speaker 4:guys, you have to remember, even if he did come back in February, it's like what are you expecting out of a rookie that was just injured? Right, you know his first year in the NBA, I'm not expecting him to just pop off and do what he needs to do.
Speaker 5:Can he just be the athletic freak he is and defend?
Speaker 1:Because he can guard a 6'8", 6'9" guy at 6'2" he's long. It's a huge asset to have.
Speaker 4:Are we all putting the Sacramento?
Speaker 3:Kings at 4? Why not?
Speaker 5:You're not. Why not Just put?
Speaker 3:them at 4. See what happens, you're not.
Speaker 2:I think you can trade this, so I think I can, yeah why not, why not?
Speaker 3:Just put him at four and see what happens. Okay, okay.
Speaker 4:Oh you said why not? I like that.
Speaker 5:Okay, okay, I say four seed, 50 plus one Sure Wow.
Speaker 1:The lowest Denver could fall is five. You'd think we're in.
Speaker 4:Sacramento.
Speaker 5:I mean, I think Denver could fall. Here's my thing with Denver.
Speaker 4:They'll shape up at the playoffs.
Speaker 1:It's the Denver.
Speaker 5:Nuggets, you say that Is Jamal Murray. Okay, we saw him in the playoffs.
Speaker 5:We saw him in the Olympics. Is he all right? Everything hinges on what kind of support are they going to get? Last two years we talked about KCP losing KCP the year before Bruce Brown are like key guys that were part of like a championship team. You know even someone like reggie jackson. I'm not gonna act like he's like the greatest player ever, but like he's just a good veteran, like role player. They had to give him to washington to like clear space and what what did they do?
Speaker 2:they added westbrook.
Speaker 5:Okay, I mean interesting, anybody no? So I think a lot is going to hinge on. All right, what's Michael Porter going to be this year? Can? He take a step, max players Maybe there's pressure on Aaron Gordon to be more of an offensive presence too. I don't know, but yeah, I think five is probably fair for them.
Speaker 4:So then Phoenix after them, though.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Phoenix, six. I mean who?
Speaker 1:else is there.
Speaker 5:Like that club of the Pacific. I'm going to say this about Phoenix you could make a case for Phoenix being higher too.
Speaker 3:They just got no death.
Speaker 5:They don't, and here's what I say. Last year they were the sixth seed. We talk about them like they're a playing team. They were the sixth seed with Beal being injured, Booker being injured KD, though did play 70-plus games.
Speaker 1:That was impressive For me. They had Booker running the one pretty much all last year. It just didn't fit. But now they have Tyus.
Speaker 5:Jones, but you're still going to want the ball in those guys' hands at the end of the game. But having someone like Tyus Jones to manage it, he doesn't turn the ball over at all.
Speaker 1:He doesn't turn the ball over and I mean I'm not going to sit here and say that Devin Booker and Bradley Beal, they aren't really the best perimeter defender in the draft. I think Milwaukee should have gotten him, but Phoenix took him. Whatever, I think that he's going to play good minutes on this team just as a guy, because he doesn't need to score the ball. He has his Kevin Durant.
Speaker 4:Kevin Booker Bradley Beal Know your role with this roster.
Speaker 1:He's going to lock up. He's not going to clamp really good guards. He's going to play his role and you know, stop some good guards and give the ball to his best players.
Speaker 5:So you got Race O'Neal Mason Plumlee yeah, so okay nurkic nurkic is not, but like plumbly is not bad, like to have if necessary. But yeah, I mean there's gonna be lineups where, like maybe they just go small, and we saw that last year nurkic gets played off the floor, you know, um, so uh, it's just that that town, I mean if booker can stay relatively healthy, healthier than he, was last year and kd can be what yeah I mean, but I think that range for them to me is like four to six.
Speaker 4:Okay, but let's just shove them in that six spot right now. Six spot, yeah.
Speaker 1:But also one more thing yeah. If this, they also have one of the best three-point defense guys in the league, grayson Allen.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:We always talk about how their bench is super bad, but they don't need bucket getters off. Their bench is super bad, but they don't need bucket getters off their bench. They have those three and I feel like they have good defensive hounds off the bench that they could use. They have Ryan Nunn, grayson Allen, also Royce O'Neal. I feel like Phoenix may be a sneaky take-up.
Speaker 4:Denver spot Kind of figure it out a little bit more. Yeah, and again, that's assuming everyone's going to stay healthy too. And, like you said, durant played 70 games last year. Yeah, fair.
Speaker 5:Can we pause for two seconds? I'm going to have to pee really bad.
Speaker 4:I was going to hold it, but we Boo, let's talk crap about him while he's gone All right, okay. You want to bring us back in.
Speaker 1:So if we're putting Phoenix at six, if we're going over to seven now. I would say clippers you want to go clippers yeah um, I'm not really high on the clippers this year I'm really low on the clip now here's the thing about the clippers for me.
Speaker 3:I'm kind of like I'm a kawaii guy, I like him a lot and I also kind of like the clippers, so I'm going to be high on them but, like with them losing paul george, it's kind of like they have a hole that they have to fill, but you're a kawaii guy.
Speaker 4:But he's even going to be on the floor. I hope so.
Speaker 3:Procedures again I, I hope so, but like, I feel like like when those three, like when jane harden, kawaii and paul george were on the court together, they were good, but the problem is is that paul george, kawaii, would be injured every other game. So, and like, even with load management, it still didn't work out and like I think they're good but it's like they have to move on eventually are we oh? What I mean the memphis grizzlies.
Speaker 5:Oh wait yeah definitely.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean they, I would put them ahead.
Speaker 5:Phoenix Okay.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. I would put them ahead.
Speaker 5:Phoenix, I was going to say you could make them a case for top six for them. They had everybody hurt last year. They played like 30-plus guys on the team at one point and still were one of the best defensive teams in the league and that speaks to the culture that Taylor Jenkins has built Right.
Speaker 1:And we literally like. The injuries last year were kind of a blessing in disguise, because nobody would have seen how good Gigi Jackson and Vince Williams were this year.
Speaker 5:Now both guys are hurt.
Speaker 4:But you're so right, though, with the opportunities some of these guys have but also because of the standards of this organization and what they expect of these guys out the court. It doesn't matter if you are wearing a, a g-league jersey or if you're an nba jersey. You got to play the same like when you're out there. So yeah, and then jaw morant.
Speaker 1:Obviously that right there alone is like we know what he can do as an individual yes like what's the fit if, like we have, because we know jaws play style to drive into the rim, but what's that gonna look like if you have a seven foot guy who can't really space the floor in the paint?
Speaker 5:think about how another seven foot, who can? Yeah well, he likes to think he can't, jaron jackson? I think he can, yeah, he has moments where he definitely can, and last year it was. It's so tough to judge him by last year because it was like I feel like he was their offensive.
Speaker 4:Yeah yeah, you know. But jaw's ability not only to get into the paint, but like when no one can stop him in the paint, that's the thing. That's the difference of like, oh, what is he gonna do? He's gonna have to pass out. No, this guy can score at the rim throw on lobs to ed.
Speaker 5:He can get to the free throw line.
Speaker 4:You know like there's gonna be someone, and then you're exactly right too, though it's like he can also dish it off and or find the open man, but there's gonna be so much opportunity for john moran to be as explosive as he was, in my opinion. I think he will be also like.
Speaker 5:I think there's you know, I think this there's people who have forgotten about john moran.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I mean and that's kind of good, like for good reason, because he did get injured at like in the middle of the year, missed the rest of the season and he also was out for the first 25 games so he didn't play last year, which is kind of the reason why memphis didn't make the play-in yeah but now that he's back, hopefully he doesn't get injured again. But I guess we'll see how yeah, the team fits.
Speaker 5:I think they are. They have a case for the top six I mean we.
Speaker 1:I know we put sacramento at four and denver at five, but I completely forgot about Memphis.
Speaker 4:So, what are you trying to?
Speaker 1:say, I think I'm putting Memphis four and Denver five.
Speaker 4:You're putting Memphis at five?
Speaker 1:Yes, because when Ja was healthy. Those two seasons when Ja was healthy, they were the two seed back-to-back.
Speaker 5:That's right. Okay, just to be clear, raising his hand. It's funny, the king, people make fun of the king. You clear, let's we raising his hand, you know it's. It's funny, the king, people make fun of the king. You're the three seed 148 games and I feel like they get clowned for that a little bit.
Speaker 5:They do well, memphis was a two seed that year. They weren't that much better like, yeah, there was a weird year in the west, so I'm not gonna put that I I I think they're gonna be better. I think there's so many people that may be sleeping on them because they're near the bottom of the standings last year, but I also don't think they're going to be all of a sudden propelled to the top of the West either. I think they're going to have to prove it.
Speaker 1:The last time we saw that team healthy, that's where they were, so I'm not going to assume that they now it's different, though.
Speaker 5:I mean they had Steven Adams too.
Speaker 1:I don't understand that trade at all.
Speaker 5:It's ready to go. I think the fact that we haven't heard his name a lot yeah, and anthony edwards kind of took his chain right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he did okay, if you want to move. If you want to move memphis, the fifth seed, fine, you can put him there, but I I even that I don't feel confident with that. I, I'm still.
Speaker 5:I think seven is appropriate.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think seven for Memphis.
Speaker 5:I'll say ceiling, I'll give you a ceiling that they can be with.
Speaker 3:Yeah, ceiling is definitely yeah ceiling. They can be with Sacramento Four yeah.
Speaker 4:They want to go four ceiling. All right ceiling four, but like.
Speaker 1:Seven, I'm fine. Can we put them over Phoenix, I think.
Speaker 3:Oh them over phoenix, I think.
Speaker 4:Oh, I mean just, you can for fun, I mean I don't, yeah, I think that memphis is a better constructed roster than phoenix, especially because literally they have so many guys that could step up at any time.
Speaker 1:I mean you, of course, you got john moran, but also you got desmond bay and you got marcus smart even I know he can't and we got offensive guy.
Speaker 4:But and we talked about. Kevinant is a year older and we just don't know what that is necessarily going to mean with some of the track record of the other years of injuries and everything. That's close, Sure, Because it's the Western Conference. Yes, you could pretty much put anyone anywhere, but let's put Memphis 6 and Phoenix 7.
Speaker 3:7 and then the Clippers 8.
Speaker 5:Can we just acknowledge Phoenix had all those injuries last year and they were still top six, that is true. And did we watch Kevin Durant with Team USA?
Speaker 3:He may be a year older, but guess what, With some of these guys it may not matter that much.
Speaker 4:Okay, fine, we're going to put Phoenix 6 and Memphis 7., memphis 7.
Speaker 1:And then are we going. I mean, are we?
Speaker 3:going LA Clippers, maybe Houston where?
Speaker 4:are we putting Golden State though?
Speaker 1:I'm not high.
Speaker 4:I'm not high 9 Lakers and Golden State, or are they just like shot?
Speaker 1:in the barrel no I like the Lakers more than the Clippers going into the year, because if we're, I think it's fair to assume that Kawhi is not going to stay healthy this year. I don't think he's ready for camp no his knee, they took him out of Team USA and maybe that was a business, but it was because he got hurt and I don't trust James Harden at this point in his career to be that guy, to will a team to a guaranteed playing spot.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it's either going to be the Clippers or the lakers that don't make the don't make the play in okay, so I'm higher on the lakers than the clippers same I'm higher, I'm I'm still so high on lebron james I think anytime you want to count him out, it's just like I know he's had to adjust his game and obviously he's not as explosive at getting to the rim, but he's still very strong at getting to the rim and he's lebron james, and he's lebron james.
Speaker 3:But I I think that like I know, like we've been, like a lot of people have been saying this like for the last few years, but like he is a year older and I feel like now he's yeah, but I think now he's starting to enter like the end, the like the twilight years of his career, especially now with starting to play with brawny and stuff and we don't know how he's going to be in the rotation. I feel like how many minutes brawny is playing a night if he plays any minutes is going to determine how well the lakers do and for me like listening to mind the game and the old man of the three, both podcasts.
Speaker 1:jj reddick is super smart if we're, if we're listening to his game and he released that starting lineup and he was like, oh, the reason why I'm starting that five is because they won what they won, like 39-13, I think, with that lineup as their starting five and it's just like, yeah, I mean, I think he's a super smart guy. I really trust him to be that coach of this team.
Speaker 5:I'm interested to see how JJ can put AD in different positions to get the best out of him. I think the Lakers just never found a good rhythm with Darvin Ham.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 5:You know one thing AD like people talk about him being fragile, but last year he was not. He played a lot of games. That's fair. So you know, if you believe, if you put any stock into, like pre-training camp vibes, rob Palenka is saying the energy in this building has not been this good in years.
Speaker 4:Good for them.
Speaker 5:We'll see what JJ can do, Because I do think JJ is a smart guy. But coaching LeBron is a different task, and JJ is also. It's one thing to host a podcast and talk about basketball. It's another thing to deal with the politics and personalities is also it's one thing to host a podcast and talk about basketball.
Speaker 4:It's another thing to deal with, like the politics and personalities and ownership management LeBron. And getting people to respect you, while also trying to like be respect or be their friend or whatever, but like respecting you as a coach. Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 1:I've heard some reports of like how JJ Redickdick is gonna like get his respect because imagine, like you're a star player, like you're anthony davis, and a guy who's never been an all-star, who averaged less than 10 points per game of his entire career, is yelling at you like jj reddick is like, are you gonna really like try to listen to that, try to rally behind that?
Speaker 5:guy. But you know, I I don't know that matters as much. I think jj's done enough in his career that he should be able to command respect. Um, but someone like lebron I think lebron is one of those students that like he's like a student that like if he feels like he's smarter than the teacher.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, definitely it's LeBron James Justified.
Speaker 5:I felt like with previous coaches. Lebron felt that way. And I think with JJ he feels more of like oh, we're similar age, we kind of like see the game the same way. You know, jj has always been known as, like a smart basketball player. So I think a little vibe, and they'll be tough at times, for sure.
Speaker 4:Wait, they're at 7 or 8 then 8.
Speaker 3:Lakers at 9.
Speaker 4:No, you're trying to put the Clippers above the Lakers.
Speaker 5:I'm going to tell you something about the Clippers Tell me outside in my mind. I cannot count that Kawhi is going to be a factor for them.
Speaker 4:I can automatically count that out. Lakers 8.
Speaker 1:And I don't trust James Harden at this point.
Speaker 5:James Harden's going to lead a team At this point in his career.
Speaker 3:But what about Houston? Houston should be 8. That's what I'm thinking, though.
Speaker 4:Well, I like Houston, but I still think for me, that's why even talk like not having Steph Curry still up. Steph and LeBron, they're just too difficult for me to count out in these standings and that's why, like, I understand when we look at, like, like the team and how people feel about them, I think we are very down, obviously, on the golden state warriors and we're like what else are they going to do, especially when you're in this western conference? But at the same time, you guys know this Steph Curry is a madman out there still and he can. He can do so much, just as an individual. And that's why, like, when we talk about LeBron, we talk about the one-two punch with him and ad whatever, but with steph I just think he can even propel them, maybe even above the clippers oh, I, I mean, I I can make
Speaker 5:I'm not high on the I can make a I can make a warrior's case right now. I mean, I think you know their ceiling is six okay, whoa, it's just I can see that. Let me let's look at last year.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:You had the Klay Thompson contract situation. It did not get solved before the season. It lingered last year. It was problematic. Klay was definitely thinking about life after Golden State or just thinking about his future in general. Then all the Draymond drama of last year. Draymond was suspended indefinitely. He left for a minute. Like he missed, like what? 20 plus games. Yeah, you know, if draymond doesn't miss 20 plus games, they're not a playing team, and so and then that was like the comingo breakout, and then draymond came back fast forward the clay thing.
Speaker 5:Whether it's good or bad, he's no longer there. It's different andrew wiggins. He's had so much stuff go on the last couple of years. His father just died and in some ways I think it's. You know, you hear this when when people have been suffering a long time. I don't know if you guys have experienced death in your, in your life or whatever, but you know, seeing someone who's like struggling with their health and it's like they're going to die, but the emotion of seeing, yeah, at the end there have been people talked, my grandma talked about this. When my grandpa died there was like a sense of relief, that like they weren't in pain anymore and like they were just at they could like live their life.
Speaker 5:My point being is like andrew doesn't like have like to worry about his dad's health. It's just not there anymore and I think he could focus more on the game again and not be so in and out.
Speaker 4:That. But there's also a little bit of turmoil with the Warriors not wanting him to go play with Team Canada over the summer, so you even think about that.
Speaker 5:It's like, ooh, are the vibes off a little bit there kerr was just pumping him up the other day and I think so I think he's in a good spot mentally and with the coach I mean you know the changes they did make. You had buddy, whatever I mean he could shoot it. The anthony melton, I like the anthony splash buddies um and I like slow-mo I mean they're solid but like more and said i'm'm sorry when you got Steph with all that stuff that went wrong. Last year Steph found a way to will them to that spot.
Speaker 1:But also I think if the young guys can take a leap, like Kuminga definitely needs to work on his spacing, his jump shot, everything right, but he's a I'm not going to say dominant, but he can be a force at the rim. Say dominant, but he can be a force at the rim. Sure Pods great rookie season and that's why they didn't include him in trade talks at all.
Speaker 4:Well, they love him, yeah, they love.
Speaker 1:Pajumski, if he can take that step up and not make it so that Steph has to just be the guy like he was last year, maybe they could sneak in.
Speaker 4:So we're shoving the Warriors at nine and moving the Clippers down to 10.
Speaker 3:Because you also have New Orleans Clippers out the play-in for me.
Speaker 5:Oh my God, we forgot about that New.
Speaker 4:Orleans. Oh my wait, no, no, no, we're putting New Orleans 10 and moving the Clippers down to 11.
Speaker 1:New Orleans above the Lakers. Yeah, new Orleans has to go above the Lakers. They need a center. Yeah, they need a century.
Speaker 3:I feel like either, like this year, I think either LeBron or Steph is going to miss the plan. It's just a feeling, because both of those teams, like the Lakers, are not better. Sure, they made a coaching change, but compared to everybody else in the West, they are not a better basketball team.
Speaker 1:Well, you think the Clippers are good Roster-wise?
Speaker 3:Well, I think the Clippers like I don't know.
Speaker 5:I don't know. I don't think New Orleans is better than last year.
Speaker 1:Really, objectively they got better Valanchunas, but on paper they got better. They lost Dyson Daniels Dyson.
Speaker 5:Daniels Najee Martin. I mean dogs Valanchunas. His voice in the locker room meant a lot to that team.
Speaker 3:Yeah, on paper you go. Ohhante murray, you know oh zion if he could.
Speaker 5:Finally, yeah, I think if zion can like get in shape around the time luca gets in shape, they'll be. He is in shape. Well, some of the pictures, but it fluctuates, so we'll see.
Speaker 5:I mean, if he you're right if he's in shape and ready to go, it's scary but the thing that I think has to be talked about more brandon ingram, okay, like whoa, look this we just talked about with clay. This stuff matters with a team. When a guy is like uncertain about his future somewhere and like what his role is gonna be like, are they invested in me? That impacts things. So, yeah, on paper you look at pure talent, yeah, they could be a really good team. But I just think there's other stuff, and you, one of you guys, mentioned the big situation. It's not good, it is not good at all. So with new orleans, the other thing they need, I I think they need to get to the point where they think about bringing cj off the bench. You got to play herb jones, you got to play treyrey Murphy and kind of commit to those guys a little bit more too New Orleans intriguing, but that's another team that.
Speaker 4:Are we putting New Orleans above the Clippers?
Speaker 5:Yeah, okay, I am Cole. Where are we putting the Clippers?
Speaker 4:You're moving New Orleans to top eight now.
Speaker 5:This is where it gets challenging. When you looking at the west is I I think you could make a case for all. Like houston, you could make a case for houston, new orleans right the lakers like you can. It's bunched up.
Speaker 4:It really is bunched up so let's just go, let's go over this. So then we have this, so we we're just, I'm just so I have. From one on we have okc, and then we're gonna go minnesota, then we're gonna go dallas, and we're gonna go kings, then we're gonna go at five. We decided denver six, we decided phoenix, phoenix seven is memphis, memphis eight. We're gonna go lakers, or because lakers are golden state.
Speaker 1:No, no lakers in new orleans for me. I'm not high on golden state or clippers.
Speaker 4:Let's go lakers, let's go lakers. Then let's go new orleans. Fine, even though I'm so, you guys, I think it's crazy to count out steph though. Yeah, but with new orleans also, it, I think it's crazy to count out Steph though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but with New Orleans also. It's not like it's just those guys, dejounte Zion and Brandon Ingram, we'll go New Orleans. They have Herb Jones and Trey Murphy also, who can definitely step into that role if Brandon Ingram decides to get traded.
Speaker 4:New Orleans 9, we said then Not. New Orleans and then let's go Golden State 10. Yeah, Houston or no?
Speaker 1:Is Victor going to take that leap?
Speaker 4:No, no, not as a team. Yet that is true.
Speaker 3:I feel like Houston was like two games back last year and they got really hot at the end of the year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were like the Golden State. We're coming to Tar Heeson.
Speaker 5:They did it with Shen Gu. Now you know. They did and Jalen got hot out of nowhere and you're like okay, and he got hurt in our arena.
Speaker 4:Let's go Houston 11. Then Wait, who's 10? Golden State. Come on, you can't count stuff like this. You even had, you had good reasons for even some of their other.
Speaker 2:I feel like losing Clay was too big of a change for them to be that high, yeah, but over 10, though, so like was he really that?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah was he really there?
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, just don't mental peace, I don't know, don't let this distract you, that clay thompson, but you guys, you guys are gonna put, then you're gonna put houston and the clippers above golden state not, not, not okay. So you want to, I've given up okay fine, you want to put houston above golden state I want to because above steph freaking curry, but the vibes, like it's just they're so off, they, they.
Speaker 1:This is first time since 2010 without clay thompson those three I mean, we're not proclaiming them as, like, a force here.
Speaker 5:We're talking about them being 10, like I think that's probably a fair area for them. Here's my thing on houston. Did they? Where? Did they get better this off season? Uh the shooting, uh the shooting, and I'm gonna assume that their young guys develop reed shepherd's gonna like have like a big impact year one and I would, because definitely they have the defense.
Speaker 1:They have a star thompson. I mean a man, thom Reed Shepard's not a bad defender. They have the scoring, jalen Green. They also have Dylan Brooks, ken Whitmore, alprin Sangoon. They need a really physical big team.
Speaker 5:They seem like a team that they're not. They're going to be a team. I mean they were already trying to get to. They were trying to get Katie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they got the sun.
Speaker 5:I think they have their eyes set on something different. I think Udoka likes some of the pieces, and I think this is kind of another year for him to figure out. All right, who are the guys that I believe are a part of this team?
Speaker 3:Right, they're still like building group.
Speaker 5:Is not it Like they building group? Is not it like they're good enough to be a 500 team? They're good enough to be a playing team. Really they're tough, you know, like. But I I think they're a trade away and I, you know, I I wonder if shengun could be that guy that that they, they look to move potentially maybe wow and I like him. I I know I like him personally, but like to to get better and to get they. They seem like they're star hunting, you know like yeah, weren't they also?
Speaker 3:maybe they're a yannis team.
Speaker 5:Maybe they're a yannis team, I don't know. In the future, okay why am I throwing so many hot takes? You really are?
Speaker 4:um, and also like it's so funny because I think deuce and I both last year super high on shengen so me too, it was in, and I'm not one to fall into that trap of like oh look, that player's out and the team is playing so much better. I I think there was something there, though, when he was out and they were playing different, because he is such a huge anchor of their offense right, like where they play through him.
Speaker 4:And so it is different, and not to say that he isn't a great player, in that his style of play wouldn't work on so many different rosters. But I think that's why when we, if we have houston in that 11th spot right now, we can be totally wrong, but you gotta put golden state at that 10 I can.
Speaker 1:I can be fine with that, just because I'm but I'm not gonna count out houston to take this, but I think that he's gonna be take a big leap, especially their young guys. Take a big leap this year, but you can't count out, Steph.
Speaker 4:Curry. These are, by the way, predictions of the Western Conference, where all of these are probably going to be so wrong by the end of the year it's Western Conference and Leastern Conference.
Speaker 5:I know I said earlier the Kings their ceiling is two. I think the bottom for them is like 10 yeah like. That's what the west is this year. I know we're venturing now bloodbath. Now venturing into the teams near the bottom, like these, these next few teams that we're going to be talking about.
Speaker 4:Well, portland's the worst team well, yeah, but wait 12, 12 clippers though.
Speaker 5:But yes, yeah, yeah and the clippers to me. Look, I think they've shown in previous years, even when they're banged up. You look at their roster. It could be very good, but they find a way Because Ty Lue is a great coach and he gets the most talent. They'll be competitive. The Kawhi injury stuff I just can't ignore it. I just can't 13 San Antonio.
Speaker 1:I'm fine with that.
Speaker 3:I'm good with that I think that with San Antonio, their I'm fine with that, I'm good with that, because I think that, like with San Antonio, their goal is to kind of just develop Wemby and kind of like give like the young guys that they have, like have like the veterans that they like added.
Speaker 1:Chris Paul and Harrison Barnes Right Like just give them pointers and just like, set up for like three years from now, and also the stat that Chris Paul has, where every team that he goes to he makes their win total so much high every new team.
Speaker 4:And we've seen what he's been able to do with younger groups.
Speaker 1:What he did with Shea.
Speaker 5:They were not supposed to be good that year.
Speaker 4:No, yes. So truly, I think that addition will only make San Antonio one of those annoying teams that we were in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 5:They're sealing. They could be a 500 team.
Speaker 1:Wow. I'm super high on. I'm not like they're not going to be like contenders, whatever but, I'm really high on San Antonio this year as a team.
Speaker 5:that could be a sneaky playing team Well they didn't like their situation with guards last year lead guards, I mean Pop has openly joked throw Victor a lob, getting Chris Paul. You know Chris Paul like that guy's going to help. And I love Stefan Castle. We saw him at the California Classic.
Speaker 1:I took a picture at the Met California Classic.
Speaker 5:He's going to be, I mean, he's a great feel for the game.
Speaker 1:He has a really good physical he feels so spurs like how gritty he is.
Speaker 4:So Utah 14.
Speaker 5:Yeah gritty, he is defense, yeah. So so utah 14, yeah, in portland 15. Yeah, yeah, you know marking in the stud, but after that you're looking around going, okay, I know that people like kiyante, george, but I mean they're just not gonna be good enough. They're they're well coached. Not gonna be good enough unless ange does something crazy and, you know, make some sort of big move and then portland is just bad yeah, I mean no, but DeAndre makes me so mad, like how skilled he could be versus his mentality.
Speaker 4:Oh, I know.
Speaker 1:It's just what is happening.
Speaker 5:It's in life. You see this and you'll notice it when you get older, when you work with certain people.
Speaker 5:This old guy telling you guys, I know, but I'm just talking about, like in basketball, whatever it's like. You see people with talent, but there's a lot of people who question DeAndre Ayton's love for the game. I don't know DeAndre Ayton personally so I hate to do it, but I'm just saying that's been a rap on him. You see a lot of talented people in life and you're like man, if you just cared a little more, if you just wanted it, having that love for something and to go after and go, go get it, that could elevate you to another absolutely yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:So for the west, if we're putting portland at 14, 15 and utah 14, we got one. Uh, okay, c2, minnesota 3, dallas 4, sacramento 5, denver 6, phoenix, 7, memphis 8. What was it? La, la, we played. New Orleans. 9. Warriors, 10. Warriors. 10. Houston. 11. San Antonio Clippers. 12. San.
Speaker 5:Antonio 13.
Speaker 1:Utah, 14. Portland, 15.
Speaker 5:I love it, I love it. And you know what? There's going to be something we're going to be so wrong on. It's're gonna be so wrong.
Speaker 1:yeah, it's just so hilarious we all just consistently said that yeah, portland was gonna be 15 and they're just gonna like win the title oh my god, scoot henderson could shoot now that's so crazy.
Speaker 4:No, it should be.
Speaker 5:It's gonna be a really fun season and like it's gonna be a tough western conference, so it's gonna be fun I just think in general too, is like it's, this league has so much talent and they're probably in a good spot to expand now, but the all these teams we talked about, like the separation from 10 to 2 or 3, is not a lot, yeah and that's what makes it, I think, for fans like it's so exciting for us to watch every night, because you just don't know literally last season the top three of denver, minnesota, okc came down to the wire like everybody was watching those games.
Speaker 1:They were like probably Denver needs to win two Minnesota games the thing about Dallas two years ago.
Speaker 5:They did not make the playoffs.
Speaker 3:Last year they went to the NBA Finals. They didn't make the play.
Speaker 5:Last year. I don't know what you guys predicted, but I'm going to go ahead and say you did not think Dallas was going to be in the NBA Finals, because the chemistry between Luke and.
Speaker 3:Kyrie. It didn't work out. I was kind of like in the beginning of last year they might have to trade Kyrie if it doesn't work out.
Speaker 1:He did say that. I remember he said if it doesn't work this year, you trade Kyrie. He said that flat out.
Speaker 3:And then it worked out.
Speaker 1:So it's like you can't predict something, yeah it's super fun, but we got one month to go. Super excited for the season. Thank you all for coming on our show and thank you, you guys, for watching and we will see you all later. Bye.
Speaker 3:Peace out.